International electrotechnical commission (iec) system for certification to standards relating to equipment for use in




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ExTAG/269/R

Aug 2012



INTERNATIONAL ELECTROTECHNICAL COMMISSION (IEC) SYSTEM FOR CERTIFICATION TO STANDARDS RELATING TO EQUIPMENT FOR USE IN

EXPLOSIVE ATMOSPHERES (IECEx SYSTEM)


Title: Report from ExTAG WG10 Convener – Proficiency Testing


Circulation to: ExTAG Members




ПЕРЕВОД ВОПРОСНИКА СМОТРИТЕ В КОНЦЕ ДОКУМЕНТА
Introduction



This document is a report complied by ExTAG WG10 Convener Dr Klausmeyer concerning the proceedings of the ExTAG WG10 meeting held 20th of July, 2012, Braunschweig, Germany.

This document has been prepared for discussion during the Calgary 2012 ExTAG Meeting.


Michel Brenon


Michel Brenon

ExTAG Secretary



Address:

Standards Australia Building

286 Sussex Street

Sydney NSW 2000

Australia



IECEx Secretariat

Contact Details:

Tel: +61 2 8206 6940

Fax: +61 2 8206 6272

e-mail: chris.agius@iecex.com

http://www.iecex.com


Mr Michel Brenon

LCIE S.A.

33 Avenue du General Leclerc
92260 Fontenay-aux-Roses
FRANCE 


Tel: +33 1 40 95 5519

Fax: +33 1 40 95 5520

Email: michel.brenon@lcie.fr



Convenor of the ExTAG WG 10 30th of July, 2012

Dr Uwe Klausmeyer


ExTAG WG 10 meeting

20th of July, 2012, at PTB, Braunschweig, Germany


Minutes


Participants:

Mr. Günter Gabriel, Mr. Thomas Horn, Mr. Stefan Krek, Mr. Darius Darie, Mr. Jim Munro, Mr. Hou Yan dong, Mr. Zhang Yitao, Ms. Lu Qiao, Mr. Jurca Adrian Marius, Mr. Otto Walch, Mr. Steve Cork, Mr. Ulrich Johannsmeyer, Mr. Uwe Klausmeyer, Mr. Frank Lienesch, Ms. Jia Wu, Mr. Tim Krause


1. general conclusion on the PTB Ex PT pilot programs "d" and "i"

- In order to organize a structured feedback of all participants PTB starts a survey right now after the end of the Ex PT pilot programs “d” and “i” by sending out a questionnaire to all 44 participants, to be returned until 31st of August, 2012. Results of the survey are to be reported to all participants and ExTAG of the IECEx system. A copy of the questionnaire is amended to these minutes.

- Like the IECEE system, also the IECEx system is assuming that all ExTLs are linked to a proficiency testing program according to the requirement of the ISO/IEC 17025. In order to maintain a proper competition culture within the community of PT providers, ExTLs are not forced to join the PTB Ex PT scheme; it is also possible to use other PT providers and programs which are related to the IEC 60079 standard group.


2. recommendation to proceed with the offer of PT programs yes/no
- Yes


3. if yes, which programs should be started 2013 (e.g. temperature classing, electrostatic measurements incl. performance expectation, consequences for non-performing ExTLs)
- Temperature rise tests and flame transmission tests could be important for further test rounds.

- Electrostatic tests would be difficult to organize at this stage because there is still ongoing an evolution of the requirements.

- The intended survey under the participants will give more information about the proposals for the next test rounds.

- Test Round “d” and “i” need to be repeated after a certain time, with slight changes of the test program.


4. inhouse work load caused by Ex PT programs, max. number of working hours (100 h a year??)
- The survey under the participants will give more information regarding this question. Complains are not known for now. Depending on the individual programs PTB will try to minimize the workload for the ExTLs.


5. consequences for the scope of an ExTL in case of poor response and measurement quality

- It could be an option that the providers need to contact the IECEx Secretary if any participant shows poor results. Therefore is will be necessary to draft an OD in order to formalize this procedure. IECEE has the CTL-OP 103 Ed. 10.0 “Proficiency Testing Programs”, and IECEx may take this OD as a basis. The convenor of ExTAG WG 10 volunteered to draft an IECEx OD for this purpose. Consequences for PT outliers need to be discussed carefully on a case by case basis, but under general rules.

6. involvement of ExTL candidates in the Ex PT program resp. individual programs ordered by the assessment team for the on site assessment
- Suggestion for the candidates to join the program motivated by the IECEx peer assessment team.

- The candidates should perform PT tests at the initial assessment.


7. overhead costs for providing the PT programs (plan, validation, samples, reports, daily support, estimated with CHF 5,000 per year and laboratory all inclusive for all types of protection, based on the experience with the pilot program)

- Survey under the participants will provide more information regarding the financial question.

- One option is to spend money from IECEx budget for the PT Program, but how to organize this in the right way???.

- Another option is to get money from sponsorships (manufacturer, end user). This will cover only a small amount.

- The question of payment methods remained unanswered up to now. Option for a “flat rate” was discussed. Most likely will be that ExTLs want to decide from a “price list” for a program. Then IECEx need to decide that an ExTL has to take part in e.g. two programs per year (see IECEE).


8. consequences on the fees for manufacturers which need to increased to cover the Ex PT costs - just for awareness, no discussion happened


9. presentation of the PTB Ex PT organization model, sponsor part of PTB, role of the new not-for-profit association "Ex Network e.V./Registered Association acc. to German law" - too early for presentation.

10. Agenda for the next meeting 03rd of Sept., 2012, 17:00 in Calgary, recommendations for ExTAG 2012 meeting in Calgary.

- Presentation of key facts of the PT Program in Calgary done by Mr. Johannsmeyer.

- No special ExTAG WG10 meeting in Calgary unless members require the meeting with important agenda items.


11. Any other business:

- Drafting of a best practice paper “d” and “i” as a final technical result of the PT programs and the workshops (intended to finish until October 2012).

- Peer assessment regarding the requirements of ISO/IEC 17043 is offered by PTB to IECEx, in analogy to the ISO/IEC 17025/17065 peer assessment procedure.

- No accreditation if possible. The PT activities should be more driven by not-for-profit philosophy than by commercial interest.

- An expansion of the PT programs regarding manufacturer’s needs is welcome, in the light of the assessments to be conducted under the rules of the OD 24.


Перевод вопросника:


Вопросник PTB по результатам пилотной программы квалификационных испытаний PTB Ex PT

для всех участников PTB Ex PT “d” и “i”

необходимо заполнить до 31 августа 2012 (пожалуйста, верните вовремя)

Результаты будут представлены всем участникам, а также членам ExTAG системы МЭКЕх

  1. Общее выполнение пилотных программ по “d” и “i”
    a) подготовка [ ]
    b) процесс [ ]
    c) техническая поддержка [ ]
    d) составление отчетов [ ]
    (10 = очень хорошо – 0 = очень плохо )



  2. Проведение семинара (только, если Ваша лаборатория участвовала)
    a) “d” [ ]
    b) “i” [ ]
    (10 = очень хорошо – 0 = очень плохо )



  3. Сколько времени (в часах) вы потратили на выполнение:
    a) программы “d” [ ]
    b) программы “i” [ ]
    c) слишком много времени [ ], нормально [ ]



  4. Какое влияние оказали программы на ваши ежедневную работу в лаборатории (10 = сильное – 0 = никакого) [ ]



Вы бы присоединились к программе квалификационных испытаний PTB Ex PT при условии необходимости платить за нее:
a) на долгосрочной основе, если единая плата за всю группу стандартов МЭК 60079 будет составлять 5,000 швейцарских франков в год, при условии, что Схема PTB Ex PT обеспечивает полное соответствие ИСО/МЭК 17043 и признана органами по аккредитации и экспертами-оценщиками МЭКЕх? (да/нет) [ ]
b) на краткосрочной основе или время от времени? (да/нет) [ ].
c) предложение не интересно, мы уже выбрали другие схемы (да/нет) [ ]



  1. В каких программах вы бы хотели участвовать прежде всего:
    a) температурная классификация (IEC 60079-0, cl. 26.5) [ ]
    b) испытания на распространение пламени (IEC 60079-1, cl. 15.2) [ ]
    c) проекты по оценки соответствия (“d” двигатели, “e” светильники) [ ]
    d) [ваши предложения]…….. [ ]
    (10 = в первую очередь – 0 = в последнюю очередь)



  2. Вы хотели бы участвовать в (совместно с программами квалификационных испытаний)
    a) семинарах (да/нет) [ ]
    b) практических занятиях (да/нет) [ ]



  3. Другие комментарии:



PTB Survey after the end of the PTB Ex PT pilot program

By sending out a

Questionnaire to all participants of the PTB Ex PT pilot programs “d” and “i”

To be returned until 31st of August, 2012 (PLEASE RETURN IN TIME!!!)

Result of to be reported to all participants and ExTAG of the IECEx system



  1. Overall performance of the pilot programs “d” and “i” in relation to
    a) concept [ ]
    b) processing [ ]
    c) support [ ]
    d) reporting [ ]
    (10= very good – 0=very poor)



  2. Overall performance of the workshops (only if your laboratory has participated)
    a) “d” [ ]
    b) “i” [ ]
    (10= very good – 0=very poor)



  3. How long was the estimated in house operation and processing time (in hours) you have spent for:
    a) program “d” [ ]
    b) program “i” [ ]
    c) was this time too long [ ], appropriate [ ] (just tick your selection)



  4. Did you feel that the pilot programs caused a certain impact on your daily in house procedures (10= strong impact – 0= no impact) [ ]



  5. Would you join a PTB Ex PT scheme under the condition that you have to pay fees
    a) on a long term basis and all in one fee for the entire IEC 60079 standard group CHF 5,000 per year, assuming that the PTB Ex PT scheme provides full compliance with ISO/IEC 17043 and enjoys recognition by accreditation bodies resp. IECEx peer assessors? (yes/no) [ ]
    b) on a short term or case by case basis? (yes/no) [ ].
    c) no interest, other schemes have been selected already (yes/no) [ ]



  6. Which future programs would you welcome with which priority:
    a) temperature classing (IEC 760079-0, cl…) [ ]
    b) propagation tests (IEC 60079-1, cl. 15.2) [ ]
    c) conformity assessment projects (“d” motors, “e” lighting fixtures) [ ]
    d) [own proposals]…….. [ ]
    (10=highest priority – 0= lowest priority)



  7. Would you appreciate to get offered (in conjunction with the Ex PT programs)
    a) workshops (yes/no) [ ]
    b) practice courses (yes/no) [ ]




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